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Might as well just throw this out to the crowd: Anyone lump an XK140?

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baloo Avatar
baloo s y
Louisville, KY, USA   USA
Turns out the XK140 we are getting HAD a modified Ford 302 in it, with auto/OD trans.

No engine or trans in the car presently, so considering which route to take:
1) Seek another non-numbers-matching XK140 Jag engine;
2) Seek a later year (?1990s?) 4.2L XJ6 fuel injected engine and auto trans (or 700R GM OD trans);
3) Put in a later (Lincoln-y) 6 or 8 cyl engine/trans;
4) Other ideas, recommendations?

Our basic intentions with this car are to get it running as fast as possible.
No concours restoration for us, HOWEVER, we'd like to keep as much original as possible, in case future owners down the road might want to revert back.



1968 Jag 420G
1976 MG Midget, BugEye nose conversion
1987 Porsche 911 Carrera Turbo conversion
1956 Jag XK140

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razimm Rudy Zimmermann
Orange, CT, USA   USA
My XK140DHC had been modified with an automatic transmission when I bought it 2 years ago. I first seriously considered replacing the transmission with a more modern 5 speed but finally decided to put is a period correct transmission as I was advised that, although not numbers matching, the car would be more valuable with this transmission and I personally like to have it as close to original as possible. I found a Moss gearbox with overdrive from an XK150 and it is now installed. I like driving it this way.
Rudy

baloo Avatar
baloo s y
Louisville, KY, USA   USA
In reply to # 14112 by razimm My XK140DHC had been modified with an automatic transmission when I bought it 2 years ago. I first seriously considered replacing the transmission with a more modern 5 speed but finally decided to put is a period correct transmission as I was advised that, although not numbers matching, the car would be more valuable with this transmission and I personally like to have it as close to original as possible. I found a Moss gearbox with overdrive from an XK150 and it is now installed. I like driving it this way.
Rudy

Rudy,
Good input. Exactly the contortions we are going through now with this car: should we do the easiest thing to put a modern engine in, or should be restore, even if the numbers do not match.
The people we bought the car from also have for sale an engine for sale, but from an XK150; it also comes with an overdrive transmission (our XK140 originally had the OD), They want $2500 for this combo -- BUT it needs complete rebuild.
While I have only seen one picture of this engine/trans, I can see at least 2 head bolts are broken off; they claim that the engine rotates freely by hand.

While I recognize that any lump with a "modern" engine is ALWAYS going to be out-of-date, and that the car will NEVER be worth the same as a near-original car, there are come major factors that are clouding my decision:
1) This car must be a near-daily driver -- well, at least a frequent driver, and NOT ONLY on Sundays or in nice weather;
2) I MUST have AC, and it is oh-so-much simpler to get a complete engine/trans combo with all the modern reliable accessories all attached;
3) That overall reliability factor of engine/trans and components is probably the heaviest Ace on the table.

Will be interesting to see which side of the coin turns up in regards to our final decision....



1968 Jag 420G
1976 MG Midget, BugEye nose conversion
1987 Porsche 911 Carrera Turbo conversion
1956 Jag XK140



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2017-08-28 10:32 AM by baloo.

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razimm Rudy Zimmermann
Orange, CT, USA   USA
With your lost of requirements I too would think of more modern drive train. My car was also modified with A/C (currently not running), power brakes and power steering. I have left these in the car. The 3.4 Jaguar engine is a very strong and reliable engine but it does tend to run hot. On a summer day of high 80's or low 90's ambient the,perature my car will run above 90 C in traffic. I do have a fan on the radiator too. Although it has not over heated yet I think it could. The engine/transmission package you can buy from the seller will still require a significant investment in rebuild. Additionally today you can get electric power steering, which I would recommend over hydraulic, and also disc brakes that fit these cars. So far my drum brakes have worked fine especially after I had the drums turned. Except for the transmission and the other alterations, mine is a number matching car so for me it made sense to keep it as close to original as possible. I do not use it as a daily driver. Probably put on, max, 1500 - 2000 miles a year and do not drive it in the winter.
Rudy

baloo Avatar
baloo s y
Louisville, KY, USA   USA
In reply to # 14125 by razimm With your lost of requirements I too would think of more modern drive train. My car was also modified with A/C (currently not running), power brakes and power steering. I have left these in the car. The 3.4 Jaguar engine is a very strong and reliable engine but it does tend to run hot. On a summer day of high 80's or low 90's ambient the,perature my car will run above 90 C in traffic. I do have a fan on the radiator too. Although it has not over heated yet I think it could. The engine/transmission package you can buy from the seller will still require a significant investment in rebuild. Additionally today you can get electric power steering, which I would recommend over hydraulic, and also disc brakes that fit these cars. So far my drum brakes have worked fine especially after I had the drums turned. Except for the transmission and the other alterations, mine is a number matching car so for me it made sense to keep it as close to original as possible. I do not use it as a daily driver. Probably put on, max, 1500 - 2000 miles a year and do not drive it in the winter.
Rudy

R,
Good thoughts:
1) Modern drive train -- yah, really leaning that way since the car JUST HAD a Ford 331 V8 with AT in it (enlarged 302ci Ford), meaning that any modifications to the car to fit the modern engine had already been made. Might cost more to bring it back to specs if trying to refit an original engine?
2) Good info about the 3.4 - figuring to get a higher capacity radiator with electric fan, as the roller right now does not have rad in it;
3) Rebuilding costs, vs storage costs (if we get the extra non-matching XK150 engine/trans, and then just have to store it for a few years);
4) We were thinking about a more modern Jag V8 engine, especially since these essentially are Ford engines -- so maybe the fitment should be easy?



1968 Jag 420G
1976 MG Midget, BugEye nose conversion
1987 Porsche 911 Carrera Turbo conversion
1956 Jag XK140

jdrubin David Rubin
Rochester, NY, USA   USA
I think the XK150 setup you described is a good way to go. The XK140 came with the same undersize exhaust valves that were used in the XK120. They caused the overheating. The XK150 engine uses exhaust valves that are the same diameter and the XK140MC. The seat angle on the XK150 intakes is 45º vs. 30º on the MC. These are more reliable than the MC. Also, the intake guides are longer on the XK150 engine, compared to the MC. All in all, I think using and XK150 engine is a really good option. You might want to change the color of the paint on the head to look more authentic. I'd suggest removing the paint so the engine will look like an original XK140 engine.

I'm not sure about the price they're asking. If there is nothing seriously wrong and the engine is rebuild-able, I guess it's ok. However it is possible for serious corrosion to be present in the head, making it not rebuild-able, and that would be bad.

I really liked the OD transmission setup they used. I always added a magnet to both drain plugs, and I found this improved the reliability of the OD unit.

baloo Avatar
baloo s y
Louisville, KY, USA   USA
David,
Thanks for the excellent input.
The 5.0L Mustang engine was installed with AT, BUT, I will look for a 150 engine and rebuild it and just have it sitting around -- eventually this car will pass ownership onto someone else as our famly dies off. ):



1968 Jag 420G
1976 MG Midget, BugEye nose conversion
1987 Porsche 911 Carrera Turbo conversion
1956 Jag XK140

Wicked Ace Mike Hickey
Lansdale, PA, USA   USA
If you are powering with a modern engine to get creature comforts have you considered a 4.0l A-J V8 from the Jaguar X-Type? Everything you want will be there if you find a complete donor. My thoughts on putting A/C in your car: you will never have adequate ducting to supply cold air as the car was built with it in mind and space is limited. Anything done would be a compromise. Also the soft top and windows are hardly tight or insulated to retain temperature or humidity control, so again a big compromise. I say find a later six out of a Jag sedan and mate a modern manual trans. Then drop the top and enjoy the heck out of it!

baloo Avatar
baloo s y
Louisville, KY, USA   USA
In reply to # 15119 by Wicked Ace If you are powering with a modern engine to get creature comforts have you considered a 4.0l A-J V8 from the Jaguar X-Type? Everything you want will be there if you find a complete donor. My thoughts on putting A/C in your car: you will never have adequate ducting to supply cold air as the car was built with it in mind and space is limited. Anything done would be a compromise. Also the soft top and windows are hardly tight or insulated to retain temperature or humidity control, so again a big compromise. I say find a later six out of a Jag sedan and mate a modern manual trans. Then drop the top and enjoy the heck out of it!

Mike,
1) Engine: The main problem is the severe limitation of space in the engine compartment for a V-style engine.
Yah, I checked out the X-type's V8, because I really wanted to keep it within the Jaguar family. Too wide! From measurements, it looked like the sidewalls would have to be modified too much. Furthermore, in my research of the FEW sources, there were too many concerns about adapting all the required sensors in order for the car to work properly. No doubt someone has figured this out, but there simply were too many cautionary comments about the difficulty.
I even checked out the Chevy LS engine (because, frankly, it is a superior engine for performance, availability of parts, and sources of information in regards to making cimilar conversions, etc.) -- again it was too wide.
The simplest was to put in another 302/5.0 Ford that a previous owner had installed (but had removed). I wanted fuel injection -- no more carbs for me.
There were several problems along the way, of course. One was fitting the exhaust manifolds -- stock Mustang mani's would not clear the side structure, so had to hunt for a pair that would. I disliked the idea of a double-hump oil pan, so installed a Bronco single-well pan and had to modify the oil pump pickup. Since I was using a 1995 Mustang engine, the upper manifold air intake angles forward about 45degrees, but there is negligent space for intake ducting to go forward -- the front of the engine takes up all the space on both sides and top of the compartment. The hood slopes downward in the front of the engine compartment, resulting in the accessory brackets limiting any clearance (yes, I modified the brackets and accessory positions quite a bit just to fit it all in there). I had find a manifold that entered directly from the side so that I could go out the right sidewall of the engine compartment (and then use a 90degree duct to run theintaek duct along the upper inner aspect of the right wheelwell. (Since I wanted fuel injection, the air ducting and MAF was critical, as opposed to a carb, where a simple air cleaner atop the carb would have sufficed).
Would I have installed another inline-6 Jag engine? Maybe it would have been best, BUT THERE WERE SEVERAL FACTORS: A) there were none easily available (whereas I found my engine and trans within a week, and rebuilt it within the equivalent of 4-5 days); cool smiley cost of Jag engines and parts (I had the complete Mustang engine and AT AND rebuild kit all for under $1000); C) access to a Jag engine -- all the Jag engines that came up in a radius of 75 miles were still in a car and had "unknown engine problems" plus logistically presented a problem for a one-man operation to pull (I don't want to hear huffing from some how easy it is, and how they did it with one hand behind their back, etc. etc. -- where were you when I needed you); and D) we had gotten this car as a rolling chassis that already had all the modifications for a Ford 302 with AT -- so after a few wasted months considering numerous factors, the obvious decision was to go with the easiest installation: use the latest eng/trans combo that had just come out of the car.

2) AC: After numerous measurements and cardboard dummies, I settled on a generic combination heater/AC box that is tucked up and under the dash in the passenger footwell. Of course this obviously does require holes through the firewall for both the heater lines and the AC lines -- but with a lump, originality is already sacrificed - you've already conquered that psychological barrier.
While a rear AC unit (like in one of our 420G's) would be the easiest to install because of comparatively and relatively unlimited space, by experience with the 420G, rear-blowing AC units are NOT GOOD! Face it, most travel is of the 5-15 minute nature, and if you can remember hot hot hot days, you want the air blowing in your face immediately -- you simply do not want to wait the 10 or more minutes for the whole car to cool down when you are just hopping down to the market.
Hence the decision to force-fit a front-blowing unit.
Could I have run ducts from the rear to the front? No space without being overly obtrusive. I SUPPOSE I could have come up with flat ducting that ran up the sides and down the center of the roof, and then blow down on the occupants (like on an airplane), but this would have required too much fancy fabrication -- although it would have been cool (and Kew-el).

The advantage of a FHC is that there are none of the air leaks found in the softtop models.

There were numerous other modifications and fitment problems that were solved along the way, such as: installing a LARGE (thick) radiator from a Chevy Lo-Boy with maximum-sized condenser and 16" electric fan; moving the positions of the AC compressor, power steering pump, and alternator with asssociated fabrication of brackets in order to get clearance; modifying and installing a tilt-tele steering column to replace the Ididit column that the PO had previously installed in the car (what a learning experience!); finding and installing seat belts; fabricating aluminum floorboards; installing 3/8" feeder and return fuel lines along with Bosch electric fuel pump and filter; installing tilt mechanism and headrests on original seats -- yah, there's much more, which I have documented in detail in my daily log (should be fun reading in about 5-10 years, but not fun reading presently).



1968 Jag 420G
1976 MG Midget, BugEye nose conversion
1987 Porsche 911 Carrera Turbo conversion
1956 Jag XK140



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2019-01-31 08:49 AM by baloo.

Wicked Ace Mike Hickey
Lansdale, PA, USA   USA
Sounds like you have a plan! Good luck and I hope success.

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